Archive for the ‘Exes With Issues’ Category

Some interesting things happened with this last Episode. Mainly, The Ex found out that I have been posting these convos for all to see. Unsurprisingly, she was not pleased at all. She left some very volatile remarks on the original Facebook Note I had posted as Episode 1, but either realized that by doing so she was publicly identifying herself, or just decided she didn’t want her full rantings aired, so she deleted them. Luckily for you all, I have them in my email! What follows is in time order.

Also, check out Episode 7.5, wherein The Ex takes out her issues with my marriage on a friend’s page!


Today at 9:55pm

Below are some issues I have had with you. Thus me reaching out to you to deal it whit and move on. In talking to you I have a understanding of who you are as a person. To me you have always been a stranger you always got that “What The Fuck” reaction from me. You also bring out the “Fuck You” in me as well.

So below are the three issues I had. The first two I am over. I have clarity, NEW perspective and I am more willing to hear people out. Even people I don’t really care for.
(I know the feeling goes both ways.)

Deme pulled a huge mind fuck on me and I am try to gain some sanity.
Clearly I will never get that from him. You reward a man for being a liar and an asshole. Any person who cheats and lies over and over does not love anyone other then themselves. End of story. And yet you reward him. I like to think most people want to be with someone who is loyal and honest. Not an asshole.

I would think a Poly Relationship would be based on honesty. I like to believe you are a honest person who should be with another honest person. I am happy you found that in another relationship.

You and Deme live the lifestyle of a single people yet you both believe you are entitled to marriage. Marriage is a legal agreement between two people in a committed and monogamous relationship. People who are married get benefits and social rewards for that.

I don’t get benefits and rewards for fucking anything with a pulse why you two?
I feel this towards anyone who is in an open marriage. I don’t care what people do in bed but getting a hook up for sleeping around is not fair.

I still don’t agree in Poly Open Marriages. However its good to know that there are women who are into it because it is right for them. Not because it makes a man happy.

For someone who is a dancer you are really unaware of yourself. The tone you use towards me, how your body langue changes near me, and the wording of the messages you and I have exchanged.

You are passive aggressive at times. I act the same way at times. So I am familiar with the behavior. It’s something I am working on and if anything you have reinforced that lesson. I can’t expect you to change. But I believe I can.

So that’s basically it. I have said everything I have wanted to say.
Knowing I’m sure you and Deme got some amusement out of all this, I don’t expect you to take anything seriously.

Ginger Baker
Today at 11:23pm

The issues you have:
1) I am with an honest person. Actually, two. Thank you for your support. On another note, I am sorry that Deme hurt you so much. I don’t believe that was his intention.

2) There are quite a few other women I know who chose poly for themselves. As for benefits, I don’t think tax benefits should go to someone for being married. I think it goes part in parcel with having kids, marital status should not matter.

3) If you believe I was passive aggresive in our recent message exchanges, I must wonder just which other option you would have suggested: a) outright aggressive, b) ignore, c) be completely passive.

I did find some amusement. Would you rather I have been angry?

Comments on my Note:
****** made a comment about your note “Exes With Issues, Episode 1!”:

Wow you are a stupid bitch who will never learn.

****** made a comment about your note “Exes With Issues, Episode 1!”:


Scrawled by Ginger Baker ’round about 10:24 in the evenin’ Month o’ May 27

If you were honest, I would have found out from you and not the Internet, don’t you think?


u know what
Between You and ******

Today at 10:43pm

you are the one who slept with a married man before.
Karma is a bitch.

you took that asshole back after he pulled that shit more then once.
you fucked up.

I may have issues but you are a stupid bitch.
And you can’t fix that.

you two should are good for one another.

Ginger Baker
Today at 11:39pm

We are very good for each other. You have no idea.

Today at 11:40pm

i can see.


Today at 11:37pm

You found out online because it was not my place to tell you.
It was Deme’s.

I wrote a blog because i wanted avdice from people.
I didn’t think you would read it at all.

It may have been wroung to be so public about it.
I get it.
I was being a child about it.

But the fact that you are acting this way… WOW.

If you wanna blame me for something you did to yourself to feel better fine.

I’m working on my issues and that’s somethng anyone can fix.
You are stupid and that’s not something you can fix.


Ginger Baker
Today at 11:48pm

I did not find out from your blog, but from an email that I had no business reading, but I knew something was wrong so I did anyway.

I did not act “this way” – all I did was post what was written between us. After the first one I basically did not comment at all, and I took your name out of all of them. But I’ll be damned if I was going to sit here and put up with you raving at me about things that are old and I frankly don’t care about, and stay calm with you in the face of all that anger, without getting something – in this case amusement – in return.

Today at 12:05am

Keep feeding into it.

Ginger Baker
Today at 12:06am


Today at 12:06am


And at last we have reached what, I believe, will be the end. Of course, this now means I will have to come up with other shit to post about here!


Not Deme. Cute ain't he? ;-)

Not Deme. Cute ain't he? 😉


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So just before Episode 8 occurred, a friend posted something on her FB page, and The Ex replied…and ended up taking out all her issues with my marriage on my poor Lovely Random Friend‘s page. I stayed out of it, not wanting to instigate things. At the conclusion of Episode 8, The Ex defriended my Lovely Random Friend. Apparently, being associated with me at all is Too Much for The Ex! Anyway, since she had to put up with all this, Lovely Random Friend requested to be included in Episode 8. However, Episode 8 turned out to be quite long, so instead I am giving Lovely Random Friend a whole post of her own! Enjoy!


Lovely Random Friend just saw an anti-gay marriage add on youtube in with a link about contacting your state senators as one of their sponsors.

****** at 4:26pm May 26
If people want to ‘save marriage’ then you would think people would be anti divorce and anti open marriages.

Lovely Random Friend at 5:03pm May 26
most of them are.

****** at 5:14pm May 26


Divorce, Separation, and Open Marriages should be gone all together. People who support Divorce, Separation, and Open Marriages are for people who do not take commitment seriously.

(When it comes to marriage I am traditional in that one sense).

Marriage is a LIFE LONG Commitment till death you part between two people.
Gender play’s NO ROLE in that.

Lovely Random Friend at 5:25pm May 26

I think there is a difference between commitment and monogamy. Commitment means you are committed to being with a person, monogamy means your not going to be with anyone else. I think open marriages are fine as long as there is honesty, communication, and the people involved have the same amount of power and say in the relationship.

***** at 6:30pm May 26

Marriage is a commitment.
Commitment is for people who can do monogamy.

If you are not willing to build a life with another person, put in the time and emotional energy into that relationship or be with the person you are married to till death you part.

People in open marriages are just as bad as:
1. People who get married for a green card.
2. People who get married for issuance.
3. Women who marry really old rich men so they can get money when the old man dies.

Nor should they get the benefits from marriage either.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Lovely Random Friend at 7:43pm May 26

You can if you have a lot of cake.

****** at 10:29pm May 26

Sex without love is basically using a some else’s body to bust a nut. So if you are okay with being some man’s sex object then that’s fine. But don’t expect him to love you for anything else other then your vagina.

Lovely Random Friend had some GREAT potential replies to this, but held back as her dad reads her page!

Some other friends did step into the fray the next day though. 🙂

Scrawled by Helpful Friend #1 round about 8:47 in the evenin’ Month o’ May 28 (Ahem…I have set my FB to PIRATE!)

I agree with Wanda Sykes:

It’s very simple, if you don’t believe in same-sex marriage, then don’t marry somebody of the same sex. I don’t understand people all up in arms over shit that don’t affect them.
If you want to protect the sanctity of marriage, ban divorce. Make marriage like the mafia: Once you’re in, you’re in. I mean, the murder rate will go up, but you now, hey.

Ms. Sykes is a living example of the benefits of both divorce and gay marriage. She was married to a man, realized she was gay, divorced him, and is now married to a loving wife. And everybody lived happily ever after.

As a social worker who works with homeless women who are trying to leave abusive relationships, I take offense at anyone who says “ban divorce.”; Largely due to the lobbying of the Catholic Church, it is actually very hard to get a divorce in NYC, especially if you have no money and especially if your spouse is controlling and fights it.

Scrawled by Lovely Random Friend round about 10:51 in the evenin’ Month o’ May 28
You’re just saying that so you can get married and then divorced to each of the 60 men you’re seeing .

Scrawled by Helpful Friend #2 ’round about 12:52 in the mornin’ Month o’ May 29
I always say, NO divorce for straights. But Johanna just made me feel guilty about it.

Scrawled by Helpful Friend #1 round about 1:49 in the mornin’ Month o’ May 29
oh LRF, you know me so well!
#2: lol! divorce is only for the gays? but seriously, it is a real problem that religious lobbying (amongst other things) has made divorce so inaccessible for so many in this state. and when you are poor and trying to leave a violent situation, you don’t have any good options. for example, if you are legally married, you cannot access shelters in NYC unless you and your spouse are together. so people leaving a violent spouse cannot access safe shelter because they cannot access divorce. because in NY state you NEED at least $300 and your spouse’s permission to get a no-fault divorce. lacking either of those things, you’re screwed.
it boggles my mind that adults can be forced to remain in legal relationships that they want out of.

Scrawled by Helpful Friend #2 ’round about 9:31 in the mornin’ Month o’ May 29
Damn. I knew about the $300 part but I never really thought about the rest. That’s exactly why marriage needs to be recognized as a purely legal contract.

Scrawled by Helpful Friend #1 ’round about 9:27 in the evenin’ Month o’ May 29
word. and people (like religious lobbyists or whoever) need to not be so concerned with other people’s relationships. as wanda sykes said, i don’t understand people all up in arms over shit that don’t affect them!

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Missed the previous Episodes? Catch up here: Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4 and The Prequel, Episode 5, Episode 6.

Also, this is Deme’s ex, NOT mine. 🙂

These are not edited except to remove names. Enjoy!

I’ll try to get a pic up later for ya!

May 26 at 6:07pm

So to be clear:

I am asking you questions because you view relationships differently then I. I myself have never met a woman who is poly because she wanted to be. Or because it seemed natural to her.

Majority of women I have met who did take part in the poly lifestyle did it so they could keep a man. They also seemed really unhappy as well. Not that I want to place your sexual life under a microscope and I hope you do not feel that way.

Just because I believe Marriage should ONLY be between two people does not mean I have cookie cutter relationships. I don’t believe marriage should be limited gender wise

I also believe divorce, separation, and open marriages are proof that people really don’t take commitment seriously. (This is not a personal attack on you it’s how I feel.)

I once dated a man (*****) who was going through the process of becoming a woman at the time. Who now goes by the name ***. I was 17 at the time and we dated for about 8 months and we are still friends.

We met while I get attended classes for my G.E.D at The Harvey Milk School.

***** was a volunteer at The Hetrick Martin Institute.

As a matter of fact that she was the first person to ever find me attractive, take me on a dates, and gave me my first kiss, and she show me that gender plays no role in what makes people love one another.
I also realized I was Bi-Sexual and she was the person I first told.

After I got my GED I got a job working at The Hetrick Martin Institute.

I also got a (paid) internship at APICHA and helped run a group that worked with women transition over to men. I also worked at the clinic and did outreach work in the many transgender community’s in NYC. I did this from ages 18 to 23).

” As an aside, it seems that transsexuals must present quite the conundrum for you.”

**When you assume you make an ass out of you not

Ginger Baker
Today at 5:40pm

As your last message addresses two different issues, I will respond to each.

Re: poly
If you read my last reply on being poly, you will recall that I said I am very happy living my life this way. So, you have definitely met at least one woman happy to be poly, and to whom it feels natural. In fact, the decision to have an open relationship was mine, not Deme’s, and the decision to continue to have one has also been mine.

Absolutely I did not choose to be poly to keep Deme. For one thing, I have sex with other people MUCH more frequently than he does, and an involving secondary relationship which at this time he does not have, so if anything things are skewed in my direction.

I take my commitment very seriously. I have from the start. Marriage is, and has been through centuries, a business partnership, covering economic and child-rearing facets. In that view, the commitment to raising our children together is paramount to both of us, and we have in the past and will in the future set aside or worked through all differences to focus on that task. For the love side, there is a commitment to maintaining our friendship, to working through problems in ways that are respectful of each of us and our needs, but in general I would not use the word “commitment.” There is a *connection* between Deme and myself that is undeniable. This too has been there from the start, and this is why despite so many obstacles we always find each other again. It is not something I expect anyone else to understand – who understands any relationship really but those in it? Sexually, when we were monogamous I was quite successful in staying monogamous. It just does not make me as happy to be monogamous as being poly I can explore other relationships – mostly friendships – without the need to hold back an integral part of myself.

As for gender:
I agree that gender has no bearing on love or attraction, at least certainly not for me. What I had meant by that line I realize was a bit snarky, but is simple: if you view gender as unimportant, then it perplexes me how you can dismiss an entire gender as “not having real feelings.”

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Please see Episode 5 for the message I am replying to (in red).

Missed the previous Episodes? Catch up here: Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4 and The Prequel.

Also, this is Deme’s ex, NOT mine. 🙂

These are not edited except to remove names. Enjoy!

Today at 2:23am
I am poly for a number of reasons.

The main reason is that I have realized that there is no need to fear “losing” love. Love is limitless. When I realized that I have love in abundance, I looked around and realized that limiting myself in romantic-love made about as much sense as not having a second child for fear that I might not “love that one as much.” This is a real and serious concern for some parents, but I was never worried about it, and it just doesn’t work that way. So that it at the core of why being polyamorous works for me.

Now as it happened, Deme and I were “open” but not poly at first. By that I mean we started off (after getting back together) free with our sexual encounters but not getting emotionally involved with others. This was easy because our experience being separated showed us clearly that fucking other people in no way affected our feelings for each other. Jealousy was never an issue – if anything we both enjoy hearing about the other’s dates. So the physical openness started before we crossed the emotional line – and crossing that line did take a great deal of communication in the beginning, and of course still today.

Being polyamorous for me does not mean that I am “lacking” anything in Deme. Instead it is that I enjoy having close friendships, and being monogamous makes that very hard for me. By default, in order to stay monogamous easily and not be tempted, I keep my distance from other people. I am a very sexual person by nature, and the people I am attracted to as friends of course I find attractive sexually over time as well. While it could be argued that I could have close friends by turning off that sexual aspect of me, that part of me is integral to who I am. In fact, in looking over the past I have come to realize that the times when I am depressed correlate strongly with the times when I have essentially turned off my flirtatious nature.

Having friendships outside of my marriage, where I no longer need to worry about constantly staying on my guard, makes things much better for my relationship with Deme. In particular, it removes two sources of stress: 1) that when Deme is my only friend, I want to spend an obsessive amount of time with him, and 2) I would then be jealous when he wanted to spend time going out with other friends (see #1). Many of my current friendships do not end up going down a sexual path, but because I no longer have to worry about it, I no longer have to cut myself off from people to avoid potential cheating. In addition, my boyfriend is extremely supportive of Deme, and has been invaluable at time when I am upset with Deme for something – he always is there to calm me down and help me see all the good things in Deme. Many a time I have realized my own mistakes in a fight much more quickly because my boyfriend will gently point out Deme’s side.

There is much more I could say about this topic, but suffice it to say that I am very happy this way, and our marriage is stronger than it has been at any time in the past.

As an aside, it seems that transexuals must present quite the conundrum for you.

Glitter and glam

Glitter and glam

Read Full Post »

Missed the previous Episodes? Catch up here: Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, Episode 4 and The Prequel.

Also, this is Deme’s ex, NOT mine. 🙂

These are not edited except to remove names. Enjoy!

May 13 at 2:55pm

If you money is a issue when it comes to going back to school.

There are lots of programs and organizations that give money to single women to go to school.

Also studies have shown that white women or more likely to get hired, receive promotions, get into college and, get paid more money over Hispanic, Asian, or Women Of Color.

Plus you are The Standard Jen.
It’s a sad fact of life.

Not like you would understand.
I am not telling you what to do.
But if someone Say’s to me “I Wish…” I tell whoever to do something about it and stop wishing.
As far as guilt goes.

I realized now that I never did anything.
I never told lies or 1/2 truths.
I never tried to seduce anyone.

At the time:
I felt guilty for not walking away from temptation.
I felt guilty for having sexual fantasy’s about a married man.
I never did act out on them but I felt guilty for having them.

I also got my heart broken.
I even felt guilty for that.

Feeling guilt over feelings is shitty.
You can’t possibly imagine what it is like to feel guilt over having a broken heart.

I never allowed myself to heal from it for a long time.
When I got over my guilt.

It took me long time to comes to terms with everything and now that I am clear headed about it I am creating an opportunity for myself to address it.

I about to be done with school and nyc as a whole.
If I am going to move on fully then I need all my skulls out of the closet and start freash. That means getting rid of all my bagage.

You may have never needed a freash Start from life. I
hope you never do. But sometimes you need to go back to go foward.
I felt like since you and I both got fucked over in our own way.
Maybe you could bring some light.

Like I said before.
I am asking you to be understanding and you can’t be.
I’m glad that what happened 3 to 4 years ago did not affect you.

Maybe you deal with hurt better then I do.
Maybe you are like Deme and don’t have real feelings.
Maybe you are being dismissive because you can’t deal and this is to painful.

Have that last word if you want.

Ginger Baker
May 13 at 2:58pm

I think perhaps you are confused over one point: I am not single. Deme and I are together, and were never “legally” separated anyway.

I will respond to the rest of your message soon, but I wanted to clear that up.

May 13 at 3:07pm

Do you really care that much if I call you single?
Or are you trying to rub it in my face that you “won” Deme and I ‘lost’.

Ginger Baker
May 13 at 3:12pm

Not at all. You said “There are lots of programs and organizations that give money to single women to go to school.” I was just clarifying the point that I do not, in fact, qualify for those funds.

May 13 at 3:23pm

Single and Seperated are kind of the same right?
I say single because you have your own apartment / space.
I think there maybe a loop or something.

But I guess you get some of the same benifits as marriage under seperated.
If that plays a role then I guess not. But it can’t hurt to try.

Sorry for bringing that up and the catty like remark.

Ginger Baker
May 13 at 3:28pm

I understand where the confusion is coming from now. When I moved into my apartment, Deme and I were not together. But we reconciled some 2 or 3 years ago now, so while we have our own spaces, we are married (legally and emotionally) and together, similar to how guys often have a “den” in a 2 story house.

Diversion Message into the POLY thing – Separate Post on this coming soon!
May 13 at 3:56pm

Okay so:

Since you are polly.

Is that why you don’t care about what happened?

If you are married legally and emotionally then how come you have a boyfriend outside of that? How come he (the boyfriend) or Deme not enough for you?

I can understand why men are polly but not why women are.
Women are known for having real emotions.
Men don’t.

I’m curious that’s why I am asking.
You don’t have to answer.

I understand not all reashionships outside of marriage are black and white.

However marriage is two people together in love making a life / family with one another. I also support same sex unions. However Marriage is two people.

This is another topic. If you don’t want to touch it that’s fine. What works for some does not work for others.

Ginger Baker
May 13 at 3:58pm
Re: Poly, I will absolutely reply to this, but it will have to wait until tomorrow so that I have time to put my thoughts together in a way that will be understandable.

Ginger Baker
Today at 11:20pm

Money is only partly an issue when it comes to school, as I could always take out a loan. The more relevant factor to me is the balance of time. I am very happy to put off school until the kids are older.

Studies show trends over large groups. They are useless to me as an individual.

I do go for the things I “wish” – I don’t do wishes, I do goals. Those goals however work within the framework of my reality.

Guilt for you was never assigned by me. Work it out however feels best for you.

I cannot imagine what it is like to saddle yourself with so much guilt, this is true. I am not one for holding onto such things, I prefer to live in the present rather than in the past.

I am glad that you are giving yourself a fresh start.

I am not sure what you want me to bring light onto – is there something specific you are looking for me to clear up?

What happened then did affect me, in a big way. It helped me learn that I can choose to be angry, or choose to be happy, and it taught me that I really don’t *like* being angry. It makes me physically ill. So I let it dissipate, since it only hurts me to hold onto it.

As for getting fucked over, I have made my peace with that long long ago.


Stumble this post if you liked it! 😀

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Missed the previous Episodes? Catch up here: Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, and The Prequel.

Her reply to my last message was:
Do you often avoid answering questions?
Oh and yes. Yes I am happy.

My reply today:
I am not in competition with you, but I will take the time out and answer your questions anyway as you seem so interested.

While I did take the last year and a ½ off from my studies I was able to have many experiences and reach personal goals you will never experience. Here is a list of the following.

I believe I addressed the school issue, but just to clarify further, I would never look down on someone for not finishing school exactly on schedule – I certainly haven’t – and anyway I haven’t the foggiest idea how long massage school takes so the number of years you’ve been in could be completely average for all I know.

1. I paid off all my student loans from Gibbs (two in total) and would have paid off another loan I took out to pay for my current education. I know what it is like to pay off my depts. and be responsible when it comes to my finances.
This is something did not do or could not do from ages 24 to 26?

I had no debt at that time, still do not, and have been responsible with my budget for many many years now.

2. Three weeks after I moved out from ****** Street I got myself an apartment in Brooklyn on my own. I was able to find a job full time that paid me enough to meet my expenses, rent, and bills. I also managed to pay off all of my loans from Gibbs and I currently just finished paying off another loan that is pay for my current education.
At age 25 did you have such fabulous credit that would eventually allow you to buy a car or a house?

I have no credit at all. While I plan to address this soon, it has not been a big issue thus far. I am largely undecided on the value of having credit – there’s a reason certain cultures consider it immoral that I don’t entirely disagree with.

3. I have a 3.48 G.P.A. Because of my hard work I was given the chance to work under one of my professors at his private practice. I was even able to build a respectable client base that allowed me to cut my hours at full time at a job I did not like.
At ages 25 and 26 could you work less hours at a shitty job to purse something you love and get paid for it?

Absolutely not. I was however working at a quite nice job that I enjoyed for very good money with decent flexibility in my hours and EXCELLENT benefits. At this time I was the sole breadwinner of my household, supporting myself, my daughter and my husband, and later a second daughter.

4. I took two trips to Puerto Rico to visit family and friends. I also spent Weekends in Canada, Boston, Philly, Providence, Ithaca and other fun get always regularly without going over budget, or skipping bill payments.
How many trips did you make from ages 24 to 26?

All the trips I made during this time were family-related. My money has largely gone to things related to the kids rather than travel, particularly since until this past year I had not traveled without them, so expenses for traveling are much higher. However, I gladly put aside things for myself in favor of my family when needed, though of course I am happy and excited at the chance to be going to Puerto Rico at the end of July.

While yes I am still in school getting an education. I am returning to the class room with.
1. Work / Life experience along with self confidence.
2. With majority of my debts paid off.
3. I am also on a personal level see that I am capable of making it in the world and will become a strong self made woman.
I have no idea what makes you think you are better then me but you are not.

I believe I answered this already.

You never will be.
I feel so sorry for you.
You can be more.
You can do better.
Sadly you don’t.

I am quite happy with where I am in life, where I am headed, and the path I took to get here.

May not be perfect but given the situation between us I tried really hard.
I know for a fact that you and I are more alike then either one of us would like to admit.
And I feel like we should be friends on a level.
But each time I try toe nice and respectful to you.
You ALWAYS say some back handed comment.
Or you act like a total bitch to me.
(Matter of fact you acted like a BITCH to me since the day i met you! FOR NO FUCKING REASON)
Or you feel the need to act like you are better then me.

If I have been a bitch to you in the past, please let me take the time to apologize now. As you are referring to things that happened 3 and 4 years ago, my memory just isn’t clear.

Yet the man who treats you like SHIT gets love and respect.

Clearly you have not seen our relationship lately.

I know you are not stupid so what’s the deal?
I know you had an affair with a married man and just because you did something that shady and dishonest does not give you the right to let someone do the same shit to you THREE TIMES.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re referring to here. I never “had an affair with a married man” and similarly I am unclear where you are getting “three times” from. However, it really doesn’t matter – Deme and I are both fine now with our relationship, and fine with the past, that being, it IS the past, and not something that concerns us today.

Plus I would NEVER cheat or lie to someone I claim to love.
Love is not hurting someone over and over doing the same thing.
If anything you should THANK ME for respecting your relationship.
I even stood back and let you try to fix the train wreck of a marriage you had when you tried to win your husband back. As much as I hated it I did.
Not ONCE since have you acknowledged that.
So unless you are going to reply with an apology or a thank you.
DON’T reply to me ever.
I have looked at myself.
The whole situation has forced me to do nothing else.
Maybe you should look at yourself.
In stead of acting like a condescending bitch because you have no self respect, no self love, or anything.

I am not at all sure where you get the idea that I have no self respect or self love. Rest assured, I am quite complete in this area.

As far as cookies go:
You are gonna use someone else’s bullshit ½ truth to deal with a situation.
What is up with that.

Because that ½ truth makes my point perfectly: Why are you looking for a reward for behavior I would consider normal?

Really mature and adult of you.
I guess expecting more from you is asking too much.
You never answered why you have been a bitch to be since day one.
I guess asking you not to be one would be asking you to go agents your nature.

See my above answer and apology for this.

“I have not been a bitch to you at all.”
If you want to believe you are not a bitch to me. Fine. I won’t argue that point.
Sometimes people tell a lie to them selves so many times they think it’s the truth.

Just to repeat: If I have been a bitch to you in the past, please let me take the time to apologize now. As you are referring to things that happened 3 and 4 years ago, my memory just isn’t clear.

“I’m very sorry you feel that way.”
As far as your I’m Sorry Goes: Do you even know what it is like to be sorry?
To hurt someone and feel bad for it later?
Based on how you have treated me (and how you let others treat you) in the past I highly doubt it.

In my experience, apologies and conversation to clear up hurt and confusion lead to a clearing of the air and the chance for a fresh start. Given as how we have gone through this before, I have no particular interest in rehashing it if it only leads to more of the same.

“but I feel as though we’ve had this conversation before.”
Yes we have had this convocation before. When we did this what happened:
When you opened up to me and told me about how you never saw yourself being a single mom at 25. I listened. When you opened up to me about how hurt you felt about the marriage you wear in was on the rocks. I listened. All I did was listen to a sob story.
If anything that was a rant.

As I recall it (and I am not totally clear on what I said – this was quite a long time ago – but I did read through the email you sent me after to refresh my memory) I had that conversation with you in large part to clear up *your* guilt over your role in the separation. Which you thanked me for, as you had been carrying that guilt needlessly.

Not because I wanted to.
It was because it was the right thing to do.
I believe when people open up they should be allowed to.
I give people that much compassion and respect.
Sadly you can’t.
So when I choose in my own time to do open up and get my closer I get:
“As far as “dealing with a situation”. There isn’t a situation except that which you create.”

I have been allowing you to open up. As for closure, I thought we achieved this three years ago. I certainly did.

So you know what:
If you really wanted to go back to school you would have already.
Stop wishing and just do it. You are white female and based on that the oppunites you have are far more greater then mine or your daugters.

It’s quite impressive how you feel that being white automatically means I have both money and time to return to school, neither of which is true. Now it is true that I could swing it if I truly wanted to, but currently the amount of time that it would take away from my kids and financial stress it would add have kept the balance in favor of not returning to school yet.

If you really didn’t want to be a single mom at 25 you could have done something about that.
Staying with someone who cheats on you more then once most times ends with a break up.

I am not a single mom presently so you do not need to worry yourself about that. Cheating is also not a concern at present, and Deme and I are more than capable of working through whatever problems we may encounter further down the road.

I realize I am talkig to a breick wall and you will never change or grow as a person.
That’s fine.

I have changed and grown as a person a great deal. You need only ask those who have known me a long time to find that out. In particular, the separation was an extremely valuable learning experience for me, one that was very difficult at the time but that I actually appreciate now. The lessons that I have learned from that time make my life easier and happier each day.

People are the way they are for a reason.
I just hope the reason you are how you are is a fucking good one.
Sorry for trying.

I am on the right path. It is the best reason.

Going to an 80's party

Going to an 80's party

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Missed the previous Episodes? Catch up here: Episode 1, Episode 2, and Episode 3.

I rummaged through my Myspace and pulled up these old messages, circa Summer 2006. Most unfortunately, I do not have my replies – they were not included in the message when she replied and Myspace does not keep sent messages past 2 weeks. Sadly, I did not have the foresight to save those messages!

Date: Jun 19, 2006 10:26 PM
Subject: i just wanted to say

You won the war.
He loves you and used me.
Hope you and demi are happy together.

Subject: ummmm

how can you be my friend when you hate me?
You can never hate me as much as I hate myself for everything.
i mean you ignored me that time where where both at demi and asa’s place.
and his timing was shitty.
I told him how i felt after he told me and i felt bad.
You hang out with him more.
and all he does is go on and on about how your a million times better than me in EVERYTHING.
So I just gave up.
Sorry I fucked shit up.

Subject: Sorry if i made this messgae all about me

So here is the deal. I felt REALLY FUCKING BAD about everything. I never wanted to get between two people breaking up. When I heard from Demi and ***** how you see me as “the other woman” I was insulted. I really thought you where awesome. I found you intelligent, beautiful and strong. Basically everything that was the OPOSITE of the many things I cannot stand in women.
I wanted to be your friend till that point.

I felt that I tried to be friendly and nice to a new person that misjudged me. I felt that if you got to know anything about me that you would know that I would never try to break up relationships.

The ONLY reason why I told Demi I love him was because he asked me how I felt about him. AFTER he told me FIRST his feelings towards me. And frankly I thought it was a joke. Because nothing before that point ever happened between us that would hit or show there was anything between us more than friendship.

I also told him to be honest with you and he did after me pushing him to tell you. I should have been that one to say something but you would beat me down and frankly I hate to fight. I like to avoid pain as much as possible on any level. But then he instead on breaking the news.

As far as the Girly-Girl comment. I say things based on my own personal definitions of things. Any female who wears skirts, heals and make up is girly to me. It’s not a bad thing your fucking hot and you look good that way. It was not an insult being girly or not.

But I have only heard that you have negative feelings towards me.

It’s funny how your more aware of the situation between he and I and I’m clueless. I don’t believed I ever did anything to use him. Being how he told me in a nut shell that If I don’t have sex with him he wants nothing to do with me.

But you knew that already. Being how he tells you everything that happens between us. Good to know I have one less person to trust.

thank you for the insight

Anyway time to drink this bottle of vodka and take some Ibuprofen with some Restoril.

Subject: Glad the mix up is all over with.

I have to confess some of this was hard to type. I’m not to good at placing things on paper as most people. I do much better talking. So here goes:

Well, if I knew all this a long time ago I would have stopped placing the blame on myself. That really clears things up for me. Thank you for taking the time out to break things down. I’m sure you have many other things you would rather do.

It sucks that the situation happened they way it did. I would have rather have gotten crazy calls with you yelling at me over the phone so there was some kind of dialog between us. That could over time bring and earlier understanding of everything.

I would never expect you and I to be the best of buddies ever. I do however know demi is an every good choice in charter and the people he chose’s to be in his life are good people. So if where both in his life on some level he values us both. Each of us different reasons.

(And your probably insulted that I even said he even values me. I mean who would compared to 8 plus more years you have known him. How could he right? I mean I don’t believe he does 45% that he does)

But the point is that if where both good people then why can’t good things happen? I felt like on some level you and I got along. I mean I know that if we ever bump into each other it’s going to be weird. And if where ever in the same room it’s going to be weird.

But if Demi can see all the good things in both of us then maybe we can see the good in each other. And who knows maybe we can go past weird and tolerable towards each other. To cilvil and pleasant. I’m not saying let’s be cilvil and pleasant for demi but if it is something that could happen then it should be because it’s something we both would like for ourselves.

But if that’s not something you wish to do then it’s okay.

Hope all is well with you.
Glad the mix up is all over with.


Subject: I forgot to add this in the last message

I don’t know it this is opening up an issues that I believe we can both agree is dead. But I just wanted to let you know IF demi cheated a 2nd time on you.

And based on your message to me it was the second time (I hope I’m taking in what you said correctly).

I have been accused of fucked up things that I have and have not done in my life. But, I NEVER crossed the line of friendship when you where married.

I would NEVER have any kind of sexual or romantic relationship with someone who is married. I’m not a heartless selfish horny bitch who would do that.

I don’t know if that matters now but in case you did think that. It never happened.

NB: This is an outright baldfaced lie. Not that I care anymore, as Deme and I are way past that, and being poly now, quite happily involved with other people.

Subject: All the way from left field

So I really took the time to think about all the things you said after the One Night Of Fire.
I am not sure what made you share all the things you said to me. I’m not sure if it was because you where as fucked up as I was. Or if it was all a front. I’m not sure if you said everything to make yourself feel better. Or if it was to make me feel better.

(I did not want to respond right away because I find when I let things sit in my brain a while I can be more level headed about things. Plus I feel I can handle things in a more mature manner.)

I must be honest I never had to deal with a person who sets me off the way you do. It’s not a bad thing or a good thing. I do respect you. And it is because I respect you that I wanted to give you a ride home.

We may never be friends.
We may never have another actual convocation.
But I respect you and your higher self if that makes any sense to you.

Good luck in your journey in life.

Subject: about the message i sent you

I’d like to if you didn’t say anything to Deme about it. I think it’s just better that way.

So you can see, this story has a long and torrid history – and thus why I told her “I think we have had this conversation before”!! I was quite content to have closed this topic in 2006…who would thunk she’d decide to open it up again in 2009 out of *nowhere*? C’est la vie! At least it can provide entertainment for you all. *mwuah*

2006, baby!

2006, baby!

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